Follow Up To ‘Warren Encouraging Lying to Children’ Post or God’s Commands Should Not Be Burdensome

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Thinking back on the passionate discussion that the Warren Encourages Lying to Children post generated, both in my comments section and on a few other blogs, something extremely obvious struck me.

Shouldn’t we WANT to tell the truth?

I mean, commenters were bending over backwards to justify not telling the truth in one situation or another. It seems to me that if one is arguing from the position that God’s law can be broken sometimes, then they are just facing in the wrong direction. Of course it can be broken, but why would we want to break it?

Are we not in love with Christ? Are we not so thrilled that He loves us that we long to please Him?

Is not discipleship in Christ about dying to self and giving up our will? If the focus of our discussion is, “what can we get away with?”, have we not already missed the point of following Christ and asked Him to follow us?

Christ loved the law and Christ kept the law. He considered it his ‘food and his drink’. When we obey the law as proof that we love God, He promises to love us, make His home with us and reveal himself to us.

John 14:21-24

“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?”

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

Since we can no longer be condemned by the law, and since keeping the law leads to understanding the mind of God, and since not obeying the law is proof to God that we don’t really love Him, then why do we get into discussions about how we really don’t have to be fully obedient? That when God says, ‘Thou shalt not lie’, he doesn’t really mean it?

When listening to Tom Brownings series on Romans, and in particular the passages on the law, I came to think of my relationship to The Law in this way:

The Law is not just a mountain that I could never climb, it is an epic mountain range, more vast and majestic and beautiful and deadly than any here on earth. The attempt to scale this awesome creation has resulted in defeat for whom ever arrogantly sets out to complete it.

Except for Christ. He lived his earthly life trekking through it gracefully and supernaturally because He was God.

And when He died, he gave me the Holy Spirit, as a kind of tether to the heavens, so that I could attempt to walk in His footsteps. So I can now set out on the journey He set before me on those majestic, deadly cliffs, and each time I slip, loose my footing or even willingly throw my self off a precipice, I will never fall to my death.

The Law is no danger to me now, and in fact it is a glorious training ground. As I learn to navigate it, I get stronger and wiser and become more like the God who created it and the Savior who mastered it.

So my question is this, if I am correct and God’s Law is this beautiful, astonishing creation that teaches us about our beautiful, astonishing God, then why do we want to ignore it? Why are we working so hard to craft arguments as to why we don’t have to set out on the journey, or why it is ok when we loose our grip on the hilliside, to just give up and dangle out there in space rather than going back to the climb?

Did we really become Christians just to sit in the lodge and drink coca and look at the view?

Matthew 5:17-19

Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 5:3

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

… and if His commandments have become a burden, isn’t it time to quit all our ministries and committees and blogging and go back and find our first love?


Author: Ginger Taylor

I am a thirty something wife of a wonderful man and mother to two beautiful boys. I am a Johns Hopkins educated family therapist with a current case load of one, my autistic son Chandler. I want to God and what He really has to say to us and especially what He really wants from me. I approach Scripture from the Reformed perspective of Luther and Calvin and those that followed them, and encourage lively debate here at Daily Discernment.

17 thoughts on “Follow Up To ‘Warren Encouraging Lying to Children’ Post or God’s Commands Should Not Be Burdensome”

  1. The Commandments He was speaking of were not those in the law since the law is written so that we know what is sin and not sin. The Commandments Jesus was talking about were these:

    Matthew 22
    36″Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”
       38″This is the great and foremost commandment.

    Luke 10
    26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
       28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

    You are not justified by the law and there is not a soul alive who can keep all of the law. Under your thesis by not keeping the law we do not love Jesus. I would say that is error.

  2. DH,

    Last things first.

    Please read my piece again. We are in agreement that no one is saved by keeping the law, and in fact no one can keep the law. I thought i was pretty clear on that.

    We are justified because Christ kept the law and then imputed his righteousness to those who have faith in Him.

    If I was not clear enough, let me know where you got the impression that I thought that obedience to the law could save us. I want to make sure that if I wrote something that could be construed that way that I clear that up pronto.

    Let me be emphatic, if I have broken one law (and I have), I have broken the whole of the law. The only reason that I am not condemned by my trespass is because of my saving faith in Christ and the forgiveness that he has given me not only for my violations, but for the very nature of lawlessness that is mine (see my About page if you need further info on exactly where I stand in respect to my own ability to perform works of righteousness).

    Next, to correct you, “…by not keeping the law we do not love Jesus.”, is not my thesis. It touches on an idea that Jesus expressed when he said, “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.” John 14:24

    But a more accurate way to put it would be ‘by not keeping the law, we offer proof that we don’t really love Jesus’.

    That idea is also reflected several places in scripture, for example:

    Matthew 7:13-27, shares the same idea saying in part that ‘you will know them by their fruits’, ‘a bad tree produces bad fruit’ and ‘cannot produce good fruit’.

    1 John :3-6, in part reads ‘By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him’.

    My thesis is: If we love God then we will want to obey Him and tell the truth. “Shouldn’t we WANT to tell the truth?”

    Finally, I want to get clarity before I respond to the main part of your comment.

    When you say that, “the law is written so that we know what is sin and not sin”, (a statement that I agree with) are you also saying that it was ONLY written so that we know what is sin and what is not sin, and for no other purpose?


    Are you saying that when Jesus taught obedience to the law, He was only referring to the first two of the ten commandments?

    Thanks for commenting and I look forward to hearing more.


  3. You cite a passage of scripture that refers to keeping commands which by implication using that particular passage seems to make keeping the 773 laws of Moses is the way to love Yahushua. However I point out to you in the scripture that I cite that keeping the 773 laws if Moses is most likely NOT what Yahushua was talking about. Thats why I cite the two Commandments of Yahushua. There is much more scriptural proof that the two commandments of Christ are the commands of which He speaks.

    He lived under the law. His life prior to His death and resurrection was essentially lived in the Old Testament. His life could easily be an Old Testament book. It is not until His death that He turns History into a New Testament. Of course looking at His teachings and the actual books which were subsequently written after the Apostles saw His resurrection, it is easy to see His life immediately became a New Testament, but in real time we have to understand He lived under the law. All sidebar points I am sure you understand. The law did not go away when He was born, for that matter it did not go away after His resurrection. He fulfilled all of the law for us and while He was teaching He taught His apostles and ultimately us what His Commands were which are not directly a part of the 773 laws of Moses. So the commands of Christ are not the first two of the Ten Commandments. Loving Jesus is not a matter of force, it is a matter of uncontrolled life such as that which happens when a flower becomes a flower. It blooms because it is a flower. We follow Him because we love Him. It’s a supernatural extension of who we are. Though we won’t be able to keep the 773 laws most of which I don’t even know, His laws are written on my heart, meaning He gave me and everyone a conscience which is very sensitive when we are saved.

    My minor disagreement with your essay was that it states that the commands which Christ refers to in the scripture you cite is the laws of Moses, 763 which go beyond the Ten Commandments. I don’t believe He is referring to the laws of Moses most of which I don’t even know. If you believe that He is referring to the laws of Moses then this may be more than just a minor disagreement. It may be a more doctrinal issue which Christians have been having for just a few years :o), so no need to be terribly concerned.

    I understand the idea you were attempting to convey. When we obey His laws we prove we love Him. However we cannot fully obey His laws, and thus we have the Holy Spirit to keep us in His Grace with fluidity.

    While not being able to obey all His commands we prove that we do not really love him, which is what we want to prove so that we can ultimately prove we love Him because we are honest enough to tell the truth that we don’t really love Him since we don’t keep all of the 773 laws of Moses. If that is an incorrect interpretation forgive me please.

    As for the law defining sin…I cannot cite the specific passage now but Paul discusses the role of the law in Romans and one of those purposes is to define what sin is. Of course I don’t believe that the 773 laws of Moses sole purpose was to define what sin is.

    As for obedience to the law…I don’t believe He taught obedience to the law. Jesus Himself cites David picking heads of grain on the Sabbath. He cites the man whose donkey fell into a well and His subsequent retrieval of the donkey. Obedience to the law is not what He taught us. He may have taught a form of obedience to the law while He lived since He was under the law and He knew that the law had not yet been fulfilled. The phrase on the cross, “It is completed” was the first sign that the law was fulfilled. Despite the fact that He was under the law until His last breath. Remember there are 773 laws to obey. He wasn’t playing a trick on us by setting up an impossible task mountain range kind of task and then saying oh by the way.

    I believe He set up a reasonable explanation of the law through His two commands to love God and love people all of the commandments of God are contained in these two commands per the words of Jesus.

  4. I’m confused. Where is the scripture that JUSTIFIES lying? Where is the reference that says, “And Jesus said, ‘By all means lie when you feel justified.'”????

    Why has the common sense just been thrown out here? I mean this discussion is NOT about what we as sinful believers are capable or not capable of, it is about God’s absolute standard. I think that’s the point you’re making Ginger.

    If we “justify” some lies — what is the criteria that gives us direction about how much is too much? There is none. The standard is STILL Christ. Christ does not lie. Ever. Why is this so difficult to understand?

    I wonder if in the future Ginger you should leave out the name of the person you are referring to. Maybe your comments/commentors would focus on the issue and not the subjective attachment they have consciously or unconsciously to the “Warren” of the topic.

  5. Rahab the Old testament prostitute lied to protect the spies from Israel and it was credited to her as rightousness. Lying isn’t being condoned or encouraged in any of the above. Sticking to the reality and sometimes that which may be contrary to what we think is how it is would be the point of the above.

    I mentioned Rahab because it always shakes religious people out of their constructions of reality to know that someone from the old testament lied and was actually considered rightous for lying.

    Lying is not ok. Lying to kids is not ok. Lying is sin. But if I tell me wife she has a big butt in direct answer to a question she has about her big butt, I think it would have been better if I had lied and said, “No honey you just have a healthy butt.” Or perhaps find a way to wriggle out of the question with a sudden hearing loss. Which would also be lying.

    If you had lived in Nazi Germany would you have lied to protect Jews? What if those Jews were hiding in your basement when storm troopers politcely break down your door looking for them? I think lying would have been a great way to handle that sort of issue.

    Would it be a legitimate use of lying to lie about protecting a child who may have stolen a candy bar? No. Unfortunately this becomes a subject of relativity, a distateful proposition for all who love the purity of God’s word and the foundational truths which God’s word imparts to us.

    Rick Warren lying is not a good thing. He wasn’t protecting someone from certain death. I think all can agree lying is bad. I think all can also agree that providing an accurate interpretation of God’s word is always the best policy.

  6. Sorry for the long delay in answering. I have been out of town on family matters.


    In response to your Rahab comment, I will refer you to my comment about it on the previous thread:

    The Rahab question has been brought up.

    ‘If Rahab was saved for lying about the spies, does that not say that Christians can lie in certain circumstances’?

    My response is that she was not saved for lying any more than she was saved for being a prostitute.

    Here is a good examination of the question:

    “Should we be surprised that a prostitute, living in pagan surroundings, would lie to governmental authorities? Hardly. But she was not saved because she lied—a critical point that needs expanding. In addressing this idea, Allen Webster wrote: “Rahab lied, true, but God never complimented this action. She was a heathen, not yet even converted to Judaism…. She was saved in spite of her lying, and not because of it. She was a prostitute, but this text does not authorize such activity” (1993, p. 2, emp. in orig.). This is a part of the story that seems to have been missed by the Bible critics who have isolated Rahab’s lie not only from the context of the story itself, but from the remainder of her life and additional biblical commentary on that life.”

    No where in the account in Joshua 2 does it say that her lie was accounted to her as righteousness. She was a heathen at the time who was in the process of coming to fear the Lord. Joshua 2 is clear that her fear of the Lord extended to the spies and she was more afraid of them than of those she lied to.

    I think it is reasonable to assert that her lie was not what saved her, but her fear of the Lord (that motivated her to lie for them) is what God recognized and honored.

    There is also a whole discussion as to what is ok during a war. Obviously shooting a guy in the street is sin, but shooting a guy in uniform in the street as a soldier during a war is not sin and does this extend to other exemptions? Honestly I have no idea and have not studied this a whit. But i have lots of Christian friends who went to the Naval Academy and had to struggle with these questions so I will ask one of them.

    Would I lie to Nazi’s? I would hope that I would be clever and charming enough to come up with an answer that satisfied my God and my clandestine agenda. Or convinced them to convert so that i could say with confidence that there were no jews in my house!

    But seriously, even lying for a good reason is still sin. We are agreed that in no way is what Warren is encouraging rise to the level of protecting innocent people from genocide.

    And I am pretty sure that you and I are on the same page with the other comment that you wrote. I need to study it a little closer, because I can’t find where we disagree.

    I will read it again and get back to you.

  7. Jax,

    Yep… you are right. Not much more to say.

    “I wonder if in the future Ginger you should leave out the name of the person you are referring to. Maybe your comments/commentors would focus on the issue and not the subjective attachment they have consciously or unconsciously to the “Warren” of the topic.”

    I am thinking about this. It might be a good idea.

    But then again, if people are teaching things that are off, should they not be mentioned by name so people can scrutinize them more closely? Or confront them?

    As far as Warren goes, since I wrote that piece I have spent more time looking at the criticisms of him and I am thinking less and less of him. The comments he made at the 2006 TED conference were way out of the bounds of scripture.

    (Try to ignore the Darth Vader music and drama in this video)

    I don’t want to join the bash Warren camp yet, but what he preached here was not the gospel. It was the ‘another gospel’ of Galatians 1.

    Here is the real problem though, how do we have civil discourse, important biblical civil discourse, about what famous pastors preach with out having it descend into meanness?

    I would like do open a post about the above video, but do I dare?

  8. I don’t recall bring up the question of Rahb being saved for lying. I said she was credited as righteous for, or, despite lying. I went and looked at the exact passage in Hebrews and she was actually not killed for “welcoming” the spies. So her lying is not addressed.

    I ask you this: If her lying was such a serious offense then why was she not punished for that offense? The reality is that this subject is not addressed in scripture and though you cite Allen Webster and his interpretation that the subject was not addressed, the reality is that silence on the subject is a judgement on the subject. If God has a problem with someone in the Old testament He is going to judge that. I think we can agree with that. Rahab lied and He let it go. I think you are mixing up the law with legalism which is exactly the sort of thing Jesus Himself derided.

    Matthew 23:23:
    23″Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

    How would you interpret that? I would interpret that as the Living God is saying that there was not only a letter that went with the law. There was also a spirit that went with the law that legalists always ignore.

    Hypothetically if I am harboring Jews in my basement and Nazi Storm Troopers break in to take them away to a concentration camp and guns are pointing in my face while my child is cowering in a corner and a Nazi is threatening to kill him you better believe that I am going to lie, creatively lie, outright lie, lie through my teeth.

    I would lie just like Rahab lied.

    I would tell them that the Jews just ran out the back door and if they hurry up they’ll be able to catch them. And then while the Nazi’s are streaming out the back door I’ll be headed out the front door with my family.

    We don’t live in a vacuum. Legalists always believe that we do. Lying for the purpose of covering one’s tracks after committing some wrong is the law that is broken. Lying to protect human life is neither breaking of the law nor it it trampling on the Blood of Jesus.

    If Rahab would not have lied she would have been an accessory to the murder of the spies, and then she would have been breaking the law. If those Germans hiding Jews in their basements would have told the truth they would have been accessory’s to murder. They would have then been breaking the law.

  9. BTW…as far as I am concerned Rick Warren is no better than Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen and the rest of the false teachers and preachers out there. I believe Rick Warren to be a liar and so my above rebuttals in no way defend or refer to Rick Warren but rather merely on the subject of lying.

  10. “I don’t recall bring up the question of Rahb being saved for lying. ”

    You didn’t… that was cut and pasted from an old thread where the argument they were making was that Rahab was saved for lying. Not just not condemned for lying, rewarded for it.

    “I ask you this: If her lying was such a serious offense then why was she not punished for that offense?”

    IMHO, because she was not one of God’s children at the time and may not have even known God’s direction not to lie. And not all sin in the OT had immediate consequences.

    And I don’t know if it was super ‘serious’, especially in the life of a prostitute who presumably would lie as a part of her daily life.

    I am just making the point that Christians shouldn’t make the mistake of using this story to justify lying. Several people on the other thread were.

  11. “I think you are mixing up the law with legalism which is exactly the sort of thing Jesus Himself derided.”

    I agree with your interpretation of the above verse.

    Getting back to your original problem with my post, is it that you feel that I am being legalistic?

  12. I would hate to call you legalistic because I don’t personally know you. I bet you are a wonderful, kind compassionate and understanding person. But we are speaking theology and the theory of theological application which is a theory if you think about it.

    In that sense I would say that you lean toward a legalistic interpretation of scripture which can be good when you are attempting to stay true to doctinre. However we live in a fallen word and he who is without sin must cast the first stone. And he who says he is without sin is calling God a liar to paraphrase scripture.

    And the reality is that legalistic thinking and practice are directly related to one subject: sin. I doubt in practice you are a legalist. I believe in theory you walk that fine line. Most of us do.

    Most of all you are in Christ and that is what is important and this subject should never be a reason for division.

    But if you have ever been lied about in the way I believe the scripture is discussing lying, you would know how absolutely devestating lying can be. Thats the sort of lying of which I believe God speaks and wrote a law against. And there are people in this world who break that very law mercilessly and without impunity. The wrong people have been put to death in electric chairs because of such people. David’s lie lead to the death of one of his commanders. Thats the sort of lie of which I believe God has written a law about.

    A prostitute lying to save the lives of human beings is not a lie. Its the saving of life. Rick Warren lying about how things really are in order to keep the innocence of children is a lie because ultimately it damages their perceptions later on and leads them later in life to make wrong choices.

  13. “In that sense I would say that you lean toward a legalistic interpretation of scripture”

    I want to put this to rest, because what I am preaching here is in no way that anyone is justified by their works.

    I can see how you could interpret me this way a bit in that I have a short blogging history and that when talking about the law, I have not first gone to great lengths to talk about grace. I have sorta presupposed that we are all on the same page about the idea that we are saved by faith in Christ plus nothing. I probably should not make the assumption that people know that to be true of me. (And if you knew me personally, you would know that is true of me. My 30 years as a Christian was punctuated by quite the impressive period of rebellion where God purged any hint of the notion that I was even capable of any good work apart from him.)

    My thrust in talking about the law is the idea that, now that we are free from the law and its deadly consequences because our debt has been paid by Christ, we are now free to go back to the law and give it a try. We are now free to try and fail and try and fail and try and succeed and try and fail and then rebel against it and repent and try and fail some more, and no matter how many failures we amass, we are not condemned because Christ paid for all those failures already on the cross, and he already paid for the failure that I am gonna do five minutes from now.

    Why give the law (and i am referring to the OT moral law and the NT teaching of Christ and the apostles) a try? (One might ask.) Because He told us to, of course. But also because when we do, when we take a commandment, and decide that we are going to do it no matter what, we begin to get a peek into the mind of God. When we obey the commands, or even make poor attempts to obey the commands, we begin to understand them and why He issued them in the first place.

    My training is as a therapist, and the kind of therapy I practice is Family Systems Therapy. I tend to look at problems and try to find out where the breakdown in the system occurred to allow the problem to pop up, and what is not working correctly so that the problem is not being fixed. I realized about two years ago that i also brought this thinking to the Bible and to the Church.

    The word of God is one organism (literally a living work) with one central message. One Essential framework, that is the Gospel, that describes and dictates God and man’s relationship. The thousands of pages of scripture can be summed up in the plot line of Creation, Fall, Redemption and Restoration.

    When we step back and appreciate the amazing equation of Grace that God set up for us to offer us a way to escape judgment, when we come to Christ, we see that God has a systems theory.

    And (as we mature in Christ) when we push in closer, to each individual part of scripture, to see how each individual verse fits neatly into that system, then we really start to understand God’s genius. We can begin to see the amazing wisdom in the systems that God has ordained, and in the life Jesus lead.

    I am repeatedly saying, “begin to see and understand” because you could spend 10 lifetimes studying the law and still only have a peek at the wisdom behind it.

    But again… I don’t want to confuse the law with the Law Giver. The Law is not a thing to be worshiped, it is a creation that gives us insight into the creator. If you really want to understand a cook, go buy their cookbook and make all the dishes they spent a life time creating. The same with God.

    Sadly.. yes.. I have been lied about in the way you mention. And it was devastating. We moved our family across the country to get away from all the poison that it pumped into our lives.

    It was that experience that actually lead me to where I am now and to start this blog.

    Specifically, when trying to address problems in what I would later come to find out was a corrupt church, I would have meetings with staff and pastors, preparing myself diligently, trying to be as humble and loving and as obedient to scripture as I could. I would have a meeting, and it would end poorly, and I would go back to God and pray… “What did I do wrong… what I said and did was obedient to these 10 verses that I was using for guidance!” And I would plow through scripture some more and find two more that further informed me on what to do that I had never connected with those 10 before.

    Now eventually my husband and I figured out that there was nothing that we could have done to make things work out biblically, because the game was rigged from the beginning. It was a church with closets full of skeletons, and such places do not tolerate people asking questions or opening random doors.

    But one of the things that I got out of being pushed so hard was that God made these amazing connections between passages of scripture that I had never seen before, and between NT teachings of Christ that I had known all my life and OT law that I had ignored all my life.

    So my call here is not, ‘Obey God’s law or He will not be with you’, it is ‘Now that He is with you, give the law a try and see what happens’.

    It is a call to obedience because Christ called us to it, with the understanding that Christ called us to it because it makes our lives richer. Obedience makes us wiser because it give us insight into finer and finer points of God’s thinking.

    Do you see that I am not coming at the law from being underneath the law and therefor under the threat of being crushed by it, but rather that Christ has put us on top of the law now, so we can get to know it, and even have the chance to actually learn how to work it properly now that we have the Holy Spirit?

    Are ya feeling me now dh?

  14. “The wrong people have been put to death in electric chairs because of such people. David’s lie lead to the death of one of his commanders. Thats the sort of lie of which I believe God has written a law about.”

    No doubt.

    But consider this. (and again… I have my therapist hat on here)

    Let’s say that we have decided only to speak the truth, and not even knowingly lie about the little things. Not even fudge the truth for the sake of politeness.

    Closing that door forces us to find honest ways to respond and can lead to much more honest, transparent important conversations.

    “No your butt does not look big in that dress” can become, “you know what, I love how you look in that blue dress, would you wear that one for me” or even “honey are you worried that I will not be attracted to you any more if you gain weight, because I love you no matter what”.

    Instead of giving the polite answer to people on the church, we can instead actually get involved in their lives.

    Why would we want to lie to skip over an uncomfortable situation when we can instead learn how to face a hard truth together?

  15. One other thing I thought of dh,

    About the nazi question.

    I was thinking about it last night in bed, and it occurred to me, more than likely, most of the people who throw that question around probably would not be the ones to hide jews in their basements.

    I mean… look at the state of the church today. Most professing Christians will not even babysit for a young widow in our church, or drive a jewish neighbor to the doctor for chemo treatments because they are to wrapped up in their own happiness and ambitions, but we are supposed to believe that suddenly they will risk their lives by hiding jews in their basements and lying to nazi’s?

    I like to believe that I would step up and do the right thing just as much as the next Speculatively Jew Hiding Nazi Tricker, but if we are not willing to get involved in the tumultuous marriage of that couple in church on the edge of divorce, it is a pretty safe bet that the storm troopers will have nothing to find in our basements.

    I mean, how much are we doing for the persecuted church now? Do we even know what is going on in China and Burma, much less do anything about it?

    Ok… now I am convicted. I am off to send bibles to China.

  16. dh…

    I just wrote a new post based on that last comment.

    Just wanted to be clear that I didn’t mean you when I wrote the post… it is more just a general challenge for all of us.

    I am sure you would have a basement full of jews and pols and gypsies and an attic full of downed allied pilots. 😉


  17. I don’t argree with Rick Warren’s teachings but what about Matthew 18:15-17? It is hard for me to beleve everything with anyone is exposing someone is ture or not or if this person is really repented or not.

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